世界看热讯：闲看工坊轶事

主打一个吃瓜

(资料图片仅供参考)

以下内容基本都是机翻，外加一点个人看法，酌情观看（变色不是圈重点，是区分/区别）

It is interesting to watch the rise and fall of a map that makes its way to Most Popular.  Kludge was halfway up, and so I skimmed through the rest of the page in-game and rated down some of the really low quality ones and checked back to see it at #9.  A little later and its all the way down to #25. 

For every rate down I like to believe there's a rate up from a less experienced player that encountered the map and enjoyed it, though, so I still think that such cases represent a net positive.

起初Aneonen聊了一下最近nerdlingnation的图Kludge，他看到了这个图在工坊主页最受欢迎的位置，但也注意到Kludge的排名起起落落，他觉得这种现象很有趣。他发现Kludge的排名上升了许多，于是他打算把主页最受欢迎的其他地图都玩一下，顺便把一些低质量却能上主页的谜题打上差评，企图用一己之力改变排名，然后Kludge的排名起起伏伏伏（9→25）。对于他给差评的行为，他认为一些经验不足的玩家对于点赞是比较上头，只要他们能解决这个谜题，就会。所以从结论来说，他的差评仍然无法改变一些低质量的谜题上首页，因为那些经验不足的玩家仍旧会雨后春笋般给予low quality ones 正向的推力。（记得mike以前也出过视频聊过）

接着nobody发了个链接，外加个/疑惑脸，明摆说的就是套白狼，连起个地图名字都这么猖狂了

Aneonen：Thumbnails that have a discord overlay are always a little funny to me.

Aneonen：有点搞

Dark Rozen：Ive played it  its front page worthy

Dark Rozen：我玩过，首页应该有它（反讽，指徒有其名，安了一个难图的名字，想上档次，质量却是遥不可及）

Mr Fab：Yeah it's very easy

Mr Fab：没想太多，玩过，简简单单，中立评价

SteemStream：this is the map that someone said they had an interesting map but it was something they couldn't find a solution for, and so they sent it to a few people to see if it was possible so I loaded it up and within a minute I could already tell it was impossible 

SteemStream：什么鬼图

Libbybapa：I don't know if I should be flattered or disturbed.

Libbybapa：虽然这么看得起我，但我还是有点慌

下面基本是Libby和SteemStream对于“那些人”的讨论，然后nobody说出了真相，太经典了哈哈

Nobody：the new crowd of players seems to have a tendency to weirdly fetishize a few "hard maps" (isotope, greasiest doorknob)

Nobody：年轻的玩家群体怪异般的迷恋一些难图（那两个）（潜台词，他们的迷恋并不是建立在解谜过程产生的乐趣，也不是迷恋那些精致的逻辑，而只是单相思，yy自己做的图能被附体啥的）

SteemStream：is fetishize the correct word to describe that? lmao like i definitely know what you mean, but i feel like there's other words that make more sense

SteemStream：会说话就多说点，笑尿了，尽管我懂你，感觉可以说得体面一些（ 要脸）

Aneonen（回复libby）：I do wish that a laser-proof barrier existed if only because it's frustrating that blocking lasers typically involves killing visibility. I am not sure what I'd think of other laser-blocking barriers; I am sure they would have applications but my first instinct is that most laser-blocking connections can be achieved with clever connected  (and possibly custom) geometry. I am very open to being convinced otherwise.

SteemStream（回复Aneonen）：no way did you just say this as i read a message from another server lmao

they were mentioning how to program exactly that haha

Aneonen（回复SteemStream）：I think it fits their behavior. It's not an innately sexual word. "Excessive and irrational devotion or commitment to a particular thing" is taken from the google result.

应该是对那个图或者那些人的评论，没有详细看，最后那个应该是作图切勿过度和非理性投入太多无关的东西，该专注什么得搞清楚

接着继续讨论谜题

Aneonen：When stars align - or maybe cascade; I don't know exactly why Libbybapa broached the subject.

If I were to provide a vote for a clear & laser-proof barrier, by the way (purely for visibility; not quite the same as the original question, I think), I would propose some variant of the observation window glass, if possible. From what I vaguely understand that comes from a model but it is already laser-proof(?) in-game and its distorted/curvy texture provides at least a vague pseudo-reason that lasers cannot pass.

I try to avoid speaking ill of other players online and I don't want to launch myself on some unhinged tirade but the whole microculture(?) is certainly irritating. It seems to misunderstand what makes these particular maps good, what makes a puzzle good in a broader sense, and also what a healthy solve process looks like. I sometimes worry just a little about how it makes the puzzle community look and how it affects the avenues which newer players take towards higher quality puzzles.

最后一段Aneonen心系大众石锤了

SteemStream（回复libby）：I know it wasnt related to a comment on another server or anything, it was just a funny coincedence that i read about a laser blocking field in here right after reading that someone was trying to program one in another unrelated server

Narkodes（回复Aneonen）：I had that Idea earlier when I realized that the Observation room glass blocks Lasers. If I would desperately need it in one of my Maps, I would implement it. But in General, the Vision through IT is a bit too distorted IMO

Nerdlington（回复Aneonen）：I think that there a few subsets of audience for this game at varying ages especially. I have a feeling most people here are targeting or primarily engaging older audience, but we frequently encounter people on the younger end of things.

Aneonen（回复Narkodes）：Yes, it would be an unfortunate compromise. I think it would still be worthwhile if there were other avenues of visibility where laser blocking was irrelevant; the player could then keep the major components visible through the distorted glass in the forefront of their mind from having seen them earlier without being completely blind.

Another point I avoided mentioning, haha.

didokiller（回复Aneonen）：Kids are stupid, basically. And puzzle making requires skills that people don't usually acquire till adulthood. The game, as most games, is full of kids. They are louder, and have more spare time, so this is bound to happen.

Nerdlington：I just think different things appeal to different people, and everyone's tastes change as they age. I don't blame young people for behaving the way they do on the internet, at least for most things.

didokiller：yeah I feel like because of how internet works, it makes you forget you're talking to kids. You just see a nametag and a comment that makes you rip your hair off, but they are just kids.

Narkodes：Well, even on this server there are great authors that are "quite young" or were even younger when they already published top-notch maps. I don't think we should overestimate age as a factor, although it definitely plays a role.

工坊老人大型唠嗑现场

懒得码了凑合看

Nobody：yeah that's true; i think it's interesting that the focus of the younger crowd seems to have changed a bit — when i was that age (or probably a bit younger) in the early years of the puzzlemaker/BEE i don't remember the younger community being anywhere near as focused on puzzles

my main interests were trying to create a custom BEE style (a "fusion style" between 1980s and new aperture) that never quite came to fruition, and trying to make maps with "stories" using only basic BEE elements (which also did not work particularly well outside my head)

and both of those things definitely still happen, but there's also a much greater focus on puzzles which, even if misguided in its obsession with the really hard maps, is probably still a positive development

Aneonen：I certainly don't think it's a grave sin, by the way, nor have I forgotten what it was like to be younger than I am now. I am maybe just a little more prone to being bitter, haha.

Aneonen我比较喜欢的一点就是理性之上又非常的感性

Dark Rozen：I think young people are interested in more difficult maps (puzzle focused or arduous) because it is more interesting to watch streamers fail lots of times and have to think, then to actually solve puzzles.

didokiller：really tho? I think puzzles, specially hard ones, would be the most boring to watch unless the person watching solved it or made the map. 

I think its more of a curiosity kind of thing. Like something being really hard naturally catches kids attention

Nobody：yeah, sending streamers terrible maps seems much more entertaining for the viewers than sending them isotope

or, if you still want to see them solve a puzzle, a deceptively simple-looking puzzle seems like it would get more interesting reactions as they slowly realize how hard it actually is

Dark Rozen：I think its kinda fun to see other people's aproaches to puzzles I get stuck on. Maybe beginner plays try isotope, because its from their favourite author, but get stuck and need help so they request the map to a streamer

Aneonen：What Rozen describes certainly occurs among a few individuals, who seem to be more entertained by streamer (or general player) frustration than watching the solve process itself. I should not attempt to analyze any further, though. 

一些主播与粉丝的“文化”

Narkodes：I have to admit that when watching maps I have problems to follow the map and "mentally grasp" it if I don't control the camera and the movements myself - or I already know the map myself.

didokiller：Idk man, I see the stupid joy on making someone suffer for a little, but it gets boring very quickly. Specially if the map isn't yours.

Aneonen：Yes, you and I would probably not find this very interesting.

I remember thinking about this before when considering the popularity of certain puzzle games than others; top-down block pushers, for example, usually give an audience full information even if they aren't controlling the puzzle itself.

Mike：I completely agree with many of the sentiments shared above; I have rather mixed emotions about the almost cult status Isotope has amassed among newer players, because I feel like it can only really be appreciated for what it is and was meant to be by those few who have actually given it a proper attempt at solving and I really dislike it being used as a weapon against streamers

到这里大概就是说一些人把谜题当成工具，企图奴役别人的思维，并以此为乐，可这种快乐总是短暂的，并伴随持续的无聊。比起追捧某个难图，真正尝试解决它的人，才可以更好的理解，以及更好的欣赏这个谜题，其他动作都是多余的。

OK再说了